tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post847834973675833992..comments2024-03-28T10:41:26.999-06:00Comments on Blood-Red Pencil: Antagonists, Villains, and AntiheroesDanihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14471919576687777886noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-64407918410687530042016-07-13T08:09:19.998-06:002016-07-13T08:09:19.998-06:00I never watched that show on TV, Suzanne, but it s...I never watched that show on TV, Suzanne, but it sounds like great writing if a character can be all those things. A lesson for any writer who watched. I do think people think "antagonist" is always a bad guy where he/she or it can be anything that stands in the way of the protagonist achieving his goal. Thanks for your post.Polly Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05729656119287702191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-87497966545620603692016-07-13T04:28:35.839-06:002016-07-13T04:28:35.839-06:00Wonderful essay, Polly. Thanks for the clarificati...Wonderful essay, Polly. Thanks for the clarifications between these characters. A lot of writers confuse them, especially the antagonist and villain.<br /><br />The villain forces the protagonist to grow the most. If you write anything less than a three-dimensional villain, your protag will be dragged down to that level.<br /><br />My favorite on-screen dark character is Gul Dukat from "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine." His characterization was so versatile that throughout the seven-year series, he shifted effortlessly between antagonist, villain, and antihero. It was fascinating to watch what the screenwriters did with him -- and the "dance" he did with Captain Sisko, his opponent and the main protagonist.Suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11624472793275282926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-19631573124678645382016-07-12T20:40:42.502-06:002016-07-12T20:40:42.502-06:00Thanks for saying that, Mary. I love writing antih...Thanks for saying that, Mary. I love writing antiheroes, and I've written a few. The end justifies the means in many cases, but it can be tricky. Thanks for commenting.Polly Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05729656119287702191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-50411725120841002742016-07-12T19:58:41.550-06:002016-07-12T19:58:41.550-06:00I also love anti-heroes, including Paul in your bo...I also love anti-heroes, including Paul in your book, Indiscretion. There's just something exciting about a character that can move through impossible or complex situations and get things done through unorthodox and colorful methods, often with humor, and/or panache.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05604899867851224650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-44317183008627691842016-07-12T15:08:18.112-06:002016-07-12T15:08:18.112-06:00Another VR recommendation. Your last one got me re...Another VR recommendation. Your last one got me reading a series. I'm on six now. I'll have to look up this one. Sounds right up my alley.Polly Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05729656119287702191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-56306287371369258982016-07-12T14:29:23.939-06:002016-07-12T14:29:23.939-06:00Excellent examples, Polly! My favorite antihero/vi...Excellent examples, Polly! My favorite antihero/villain of the moment is Joe Goldberg, protagonist of Caroline Kepnes “You” Series. He’s an intelligent, good humored, oddly self-aware psychopath, with a talent for biting social criticism. Unlike most unreliable narrators, he comes with boy next door charm and a host of good intentions—apart from being an obsessive, manipulative serial killer.<br /><br /><a href="http://vrbarkowski.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">VR Barkowski</a>VR Barkowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04927993233682731113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-62524496602321963552016-07-12T14:22:25.734-06:002016-07-12T14:22:25.734-06:00I have Sophie's Choice on my bookshelf, but I ...I have Sophie's Choice on my bookshelf, but I don't think I'll ever read it. Too depressing, and with all the turmoil in the country, I don't want to be depressed. Writers must give villains the same attention they give their heroes; otherwise, they're not real characters. I love me a good villain though. :-)<br />Polly Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05729656119287702191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-54761852076776739792016-07-12T13:53:22.641-06:002016-07-12T13:53:22.641-06:00These were such great examples, Polly, and really ...These were such great examples, Polly, and really helped define the difference between pure villains and antagonists.<br /><br />I, too, will never forget that moment in Sophie's Choice. I din't read the book, but the moment as portrayed by Meryl Streep will always stay in my mind. I think you also made a good point about how an actor can bring another dimension to characters that may not be there on paper.Maryannwriteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09479027709233807149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-90744900768782925782016-07-12T11:49:05.995-06:002016-07-12T11:49:05.995-06:00Couldn't agree more, DV. Rick Blaine is the pe...Couldn't agree more, DV. Rick Blaine is the perfect antihero, yet he never gets so soft he ruins his image. What's the line? Something about, I'm the only person I care about? Yeah, right. Newman was the best, imo. Just something about that face.Polly Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05729656119287702191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-5786773003289296682016-07-12T11:46:28.251-06:002016-07-12T11:46:28.251-06:00Linda, they have to have some redeeming characteri...Linda, they have to have some redeeming characteristic to make them believable. I try to do that too, but I have one character who is just plain evil. I do give him a father who let him get away with, murder, though. Literally murder.Polly Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05729656119287702191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-86407977303404593342016-07-12T11:01:43.923-06:002016-07-12T11:01:43.923-06:00Rick Blaine is my all-time fav. I love antiheroes-...Rick Blaine is my all-time fav. I love antiheroes--all of the actors you listed (Newman, McQueen, etc.) were must-sees while growing up. Personally, I quit reading if the hero or villain are either too perfect or evil. I'm interested in realistic characters, not cartoons.DVBerkomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14532240108342745282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-36021895779733205702016-07-12T10:56:53.720-06:002016-07-12T10:56:53.720-06:00This is a great discussion, Polly. I really like t...This is a great discussion, Polly. I really like the examples you've included. The villain in my current work is one I love to hate. I'm working hard to weave into the story some justification for his attitude of entitlement -- at least from his perspective. The reader may see it differently, as do I.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16056682992943171805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-64072097222268938742016-07-12T09:05:46.434-06:002016-07-12T09:05:46.434-06:00Of course I meant the movies.Of course I meant the movies.Polly Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05729656119287702191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-3298773766885990412016-07-12T09:04:49.955-06:002016-07-12T09:04:49.955-06:00I have all three books but I only read the first. ...I have all three books but I only read the first. I did, however, see both the Swedish and English versions of the books and loved them both. She's definitely an intriguing character. Wish I had written her.Polly Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05729656119287702191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-59725019047137703072016-07-12T08:51:38.553-06:002016-07-12T08:51:38.553-06:00I loved the Dragon Tattoo series in spite of the p...I loved the Dragon Tattoo series in spite of the poor writing because of the Lizbeth character. I was not so fond of Blomkvist. I think Lizbeth has to go down as my favorite antihero.Diana Hurwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18216220574149672733noreply@blogger.com