tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post8004618317993841015..comments2024-03-28T10:41:26.999-06:00Comments on Blood-Red Pencil: To Splice or Not to SpliceDanihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14471919576687777886noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-2761256128283675572009-07-17T14:33:43.651-06:002009-07-17T14:33:43.651-06:00I agree about bending the rules if the resulting s...I agree about bending the rules if the resulting sentence makes sense. Clarity must be the primary consideration in this case. The comma splice (a.k.a. run-on sentence) can be avoided by having a word or phrase rather than an independent clause follow "then," as noted by Maryann. (In her example, "then" acts almost as a conjunction, but it relates sequential order, which the conjunction does not. Isn't grammar fun?Linda Lanenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-3103087281411956632009-07-15T20:26:28.781-06:002009-07-15T20:26:28.781-06:00Great comments, everyone. Thanks for chiming in! I...Great comments, everyone. Thanks for chiming in! I think I'll continue to bend the rules now and then!<br />HeidiHeidiwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593338979995203659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-80184835832693694292009-07-15T06:16:09.242-06:002009-07-15T06:16:09.242-06:00I'm confused about whether you want to put a c...I'm confused about whether you want to put a comma before or after THEN. But I don't think it much matters. I try to follow grammar rules (partly because I love grammar), but my overarching rule is always: Do what makes the sentence easiest to understand. Sometimes, a comma helps, whether it's a splice or not.Alexis Granthttp://www.alexisgrant.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-83134021646947954802009-07-14T21:34:52.094-06:002009-07-14T21:34:52.094-06:00I dislike the word "then" when it is ove...I dislike the word "then" when it is overused like this. There are better ways to write a sentence than to use "then". But on the comma question - it is actually a semi-colon that is required (if anything) because the "and" is missing. Simpler to go with no punctuation.Elle Carter Nealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02266309723919011181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-10496453164421985592009-07-14T21:10:29.808-06:002009-07-14T21:10:29.808-06:00"The old dog awoke at the sound of his master..."The old dog awoke at the sound of his master’s voice, lifted his head then stood up, and wagged his tail."<br /><br />I'd punctuate that one like this: "The old dog awoke at the sound of his master's voice, lifted his head, then stood up and wagged his tail."<br /><br />Although I agree with notenoughwords that it is a matter of style and not an adherence to a rule.Maryannwriteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09479027709233807149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-21144561227713835532009-07-14T20:03:05.636-06:002009-07-14T20:03:05.636-06:00"The old dog awoke at the sound of his master..."The old dog awoke at the sound of his master’s voice, lifted his head then stood up, and wagged his tail."<br /><br />I would come firmly down on the side of the comma over then.<br /><br />The old dog awoke at the sound of his master's voice; lifted his head, stood up and wagged his tail.<br /><br />But that, I think, comes down to writing voice more than any formal rule.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-17811735715996897252009-07-14T19:42:38.967-06:002009-07-14T19:42:38.967-06:00So would you agree:
We can break the rules, but w...So would you agree:<br /><br />We can break the rules, but we need to know the rules first, then break them consciously for a good reason.<br /><br />Sometimes it's okay to add a comma to a sentence for clarity, even if the comma is not grammatically required.<br /><br />At least in fiction, "and then" looks silly when "then" serves the purpose by itself.Patricia Stolteyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192369425956406122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-36400940006088340552009-07-14T15:56:30.185-06:002009-07-14T15:56:30.185-06:00I'll admit that I like to use the comma and th...I'll admit that I like to use the comma and then "then" in my work. I have seen it a lot in mysteries and suspense and the style seems to add to the fast pacing.<br /><br />I have had editors at different publishers edit my work differently. Some want to add the "and" while others don't. We usually compromise. :-)<br /><br />It appears that some of the comments beg the question as to whether we bend grammar rules for fiction or not. I've seen lots of bending over the years, and I think if the story is strong enough we can get by with a little more bending. If the story isn't very strong, the grammar mistakes can give an acquisitions editor a good excuse to pass and not have to tell the author the story stinks.Maryannwriteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09479027709233807149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-43650412447928159632009-07-14T13:14:12.693-06:002009-07-14T13:14:12.693-06:00Trying to remember what I can about comma splices ...Trying to remember what I can about comma splices without getting out of my chair. <br /><br />A comma slice comes under the heading of "run-on sentence." There are a couple kinds of run-on sentences as I recall, but I think a comma splice comes into being when a comma tries to create two clauses where two clauses don't exist. <br /><br />A comma alone isn't strong enough to be used between two clauses, but should only be used between a clause and a phrase.<br /><br />Let me back up. <br /><br />A clause has the same weight as a sentence in that it contains a subject and a verb and is a complete thought. A sentence is a clause with a period at the end. One complete thought. It can stand on its own. <br /><br />Two clauses create a compound sentence. Both sides of the punctuation are complete and each could stand on its own, but the writer of the sentence has decided she wants a softer connection than a period.<br /><br />A period is a hard connection. <br /><br />If there is a strong divide between one complete thought and the next complete thought, it requires period or punctuation equal to a period. <br /><br />And if the writer decides he wants a softer divide, he turns to colons, semi-colons, and commas mated with conjunctions, one of the FANBOY set, "but" and "and" the most commonly used. <br /><br />A phrase is not a complete thought, missing either subject, verb, or both depending on what kind of phrase it is. A phrase cannot stand on its own. It needs the rest of the thought to be considered a clause or a sentence. <br /><br />There are exceptions to this rule. In some progressive and/or experimental fiction, incomplete ideas are acceptable. Rhythm and pacing can be more important to a writer than following certain rules. <br /><br />Grammar exists for the sake of clarity. If I break a rule, I ask myself will the reader still understand what I am saying? If the answer is "YES," then I go for it. If it's "NO," I refer back to the rules. <br /><br />"Then" is a tricky mother. I try not to use it at all, but when I do I depend on sentence length and clarity of action to decide.Gay Deganihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03609404497703663916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-70904339389053528392009-07-14T12:43:58.711-06:002009-07-14T12:43:58.711-06:00I hired a comma crazy editor once, she, liked, com...I hired a comma crazy editor once, she, liked, commas, way, too, much! <br /><br />I try to be careful with "then", but I'm not so sure I don't fall short now and then.Elizabeth Bradleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03150221675618198674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-54529292867570479302009-07-14T12:25:34.669-06:002009-07-14T12:25:34.669-06:00Oh, boy. I think I need to do some more reading i...Oh, boy. I think I need to do some more reading in my grammar books.<br /><br />Lynnette Labelle<br />http://lynnettelabelle.blogspot.comLynnette Labellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03227593491562480538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-10614352019441510352009-07-14T10:57:31.476-06:002009-07-14T10:57:31.476-06:00If the importance attached to all these minor deta...If the importance attached to all these minor details doesn't drive those of us who love to write absolutely nuts, I don't know what will. It takes all the joy out of writing if you have to obey all these ridiculous rules.<br /><br />Maybe it's due to my age but my mind cringes at this stuff anymore. It seems so petty. I appreciate rules but they can get out of line.<br /><br />Sorry, but I'm not as sharp as I used to be and this stuff is becoming mind-boggling. That's probably why I love my blog and can't motivate myself to go outside its boundaries with my words.<br /><br />Listen to me; I'm indeed getting old and crotchety!Cheryl Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09064303602761860569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-74360089939052372862009-07-14T07:44:15.123-06:002009-07-14T07:44:15.123-06:00Oh, man. I'm so bad at this stuff. I'm g...Oh, man. I'm so bad at this stuff. I'm glad I found this blog, though!B.J. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10767654810069240472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-45295692583339565242009-07-14T06:35:37.159-06:002009-07-14T06:35:37.159-06:00English is very malleable, isn't it? I'd ...English is very malleable, isn't it? I'd use the comma. Voice in fiction seems to allow for, even demand, certain irregulariteis the Grammar Police would cite us for!writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.com