tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post5362260018698429297..comments2024-03-28T10:41:26.999-06:00Comments on Blood-Red Pencil: Must We Really Be Dumb and Dumber?Danihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14471919576687777886noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-40674345729111854392013-05-31T10:53:50.044-06:002013-05-31T10:53:50.044-06:00You know, Linda, I've honestly never given a t...You know, Linda, I've honestly never given a thought to the reading level of my stuff ... so if it's capped at a sixth-grade reading level that would indicate the author's reading level. Oh, and while I do appreciate sophisticated satire, I'll double over with laughter at seeing someone get hit in the head with a wrench.Christopher Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03667548312923348614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-19101541196113223522013-05-31T07:22:55.865-06:002013-05-31T07:22:55.865-06:00I absolutely love this post, Linda, and all the di...I absolutely love this post, Linda, and all the discussion. A great point here as well is that the words we use need to "fit" what we're writing. Which of course again speaks to audience, and where you have to find that balance. That's where it can get tricky. So often words stick out for the opposite of what Kathryn was saying--it's obvious some editor dumbed down the original to fit the market. But Kathryn and her editor worked so well together! That's what a great editor is supposed to do--spur you to find something better, not just different. <br />I posted a blog on my own website yesterday about genre vs. Literary, and did one have more merit. The truth is, in the hands of a skilled writer, great prose, insight, compelling characters, a meaningful (and entertaining) plot all come to pass. <br />Thanks for this, Linda! All great food for thought. Which I am gonna go now and wrap in chocolate. Susan Mary Malonehttp://www.maloneeditorial.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-49960268560442644062013-05-30T18:43:55.535-06:002013-05-30T18:43:55.535-06:00Sad but true, Anonymous. Newer is not necessarily ...Sad but true, Anonymous. Newer is not necessarily better, as can be seen clearly from your examples. Quality always holds the winning hand in my opinion, and it extends far beyond word choices in books.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-6556163123035196942013-05-30T17:47:04.352-06:002013-05-30T17:47:04.352-06:00It's across the board.
The History Channel'...It's across the board.<br />The History Channel's once excellent shows have been replaced by Pawn Stars and American Pickers. The Golden Age of Hollywood was replaced by movies that tried to trump the last one with more sex, more violence, more nonsense (such as your Dumb and Dumber example). Top 40 radio once presented talent ranging from Elvis to Sinatra (Frank and Nancy) to the Beatles to the Supremes to Ray Charles to Johnny Cash to the Beach Boys (do a web search for Billboard and look at issues from 50 years ago. Scan the Hot 100 for a complete list of artists). Now "music" consists of who has the most flash, best dancing, and most exposed flesh.<br />The ultimate insight was when I read someone from traditional publishing who wrote that the pulp fiction of 1900 to 1940s was better written than the best sellers of today.<br />She was right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-20495857935638466142013-05-30T16:31:02.517-06:002013-05-30T16:31:02.517-06:00Vestige: a great choice and an interesting word pi...Vestige: a great choice and an interesting word picture, Kathryn. Yes, indeed, it's all about the right word.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-79555468122950104282013-05-30T15:30:50.225-06:002013-05-30T15:30:50.225-06:00I like Dani's approach. I also agree with Terr...I like Dani's approach. I also agree with Terri, that it isn't so much a choice between the dumb word and the intellectual's word, but the wrong word and the right one. Case in point: A sentence in my forthcoming novel about a dancer in the hospital being sensitive to the fact that a dance critic is in the room, looking at her covers as if "seeking some remnant of that dancer within its hilly landscape." My editor suggested that I come up with a simpler word than "remnant," as it seemed wrong to her. The word I came up with was actually less common: vestige. I apologized that I'd moved in the wrong direction and she agreed that vestige was the perfect word!Kathryn Crafthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371458857187160425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-17258538871972333292013-05-30T12:54:03.460-06:002013-05-30T12:54:03.460-06:00Terry, you hit on a good point. Newspapers are des...Terry, you hit on a good point. Newspapers are designed to appeal to the masses. To address all reading levels, they have to aim at the lower ones. As writers we target a more select audience and can choose our vocabularies accordingly.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-5201136467373668252013-05-30T12:36:22.578-06:002013-05-30T12:36:22.578-06:00Dani, I think we're on the same page here. I b...Dani, I think we're on the same page here. I believe in simple and straightforward in almost all aspects of writing and life. "Fancy-schmancy" writing isn't necessarily good writing, just as plain and to-the-point doesn't guarantee a quality piece.<br /><br />Simple and dumbing down are not synonymous. Wordiness is equally annoying, whether the words are sixth-grade or college level. Any story takes as many words as it takes to pull the reader in and effectively tell the tale. <br /><br />If your target audience is scientific, medical, technical, or otherwise highly educated, your work will use a vocabulary that would certainly be over my head -- and I wouldn't be buying the book. Dumbing it down to my level, however, might negate its value for its intended audience.<br /><br />As you suggest, some authors tend to put their expansive vocabularies on display in their writing. We each can decide for ourselves whether we want to read their books. It wouldn't be my choice to do so.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-86761845054375616772013-05-30T12:05:05.269-06:002013-05-30T12:05:05.269-06:00My high school English teacher always said "S...My high school English teacher always said "Say What You Mean." I don't think you need to dumb down the vocabulary to get the story told. As long as it's appropriate to the characters in the story so they sound like real people. <br /><br />As I recall, when I was teaching for the Adult Literacy League, we were told that newspapers are written on the 5th grade level. Can't be 100% sure I remember that correctly, though.<br />Terry <br /><a href="http://terryodell.com/terrysplace" rel="nofollow">Terry's Place</a><br /> <br />Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-85981160391433505062013-05-30T11:10:34.417-06:002013-05-30T11:10:34.417-06:00I'll stick to my belief that spare and clear w...I'll stick to my belief that spare and clear writing is often more powerful than text cloaked in self-important language. Too many people try to sound smart and end up communicating nothing (except that they are full of themselves). Depending on topic and audience, simple is often best. Even if you don't sound all fancy-schmancy. ;)Danihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14471919576687777886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-26895681372427998442013-05-30T09:05:03.779-06:002013-05-30T09:05:03.779-06:00Diana, I have issues with the Internet and social ...Diana, I have issues with the Internet and social media, and yet I have praise for both. They're a mixed bag, especially when vocabulary is dumbed down to obscure (to me) abbreviations and sentences are short and choppy. On the other hand, the shorter and more concise the message, the greater the likelihood that it will be read, right? Hmm.<br /><br />I think it's great that you and your daughter read together. And kudos to you for not dumbing down the language in your YA books.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-15521678542504318542013-05-30T08:52:05.779-06:002013-05-30T08:52:05.779-06:00Maryann, two of the beautiful perks I find in this...Maryann, two of the beautiful perks I find in this blog are the quality and diversity of our contributors and followers. Despite the efforts of some in the publishing industry to lower standards with (perhaps) the misguided hope of selling more books, Blood-red-pencilers hold fast to the concepts and rules that create above-standard works. This doesn't mean we never break the rules; we just have learned when to do it so quality doesn't suffer.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-24708189252471686232013-05-30T08:44:29.344-06:002013-05-30T08:44:29.344-06:00D.M. Solis, I heartily agree that we must make our...D.M. Solis, I heartily agree that we must make our stories palatable. "Chocolate" as an enticement? What a yummy idea! Kale, however, is not on my favorite foods list. As you note, the secret is balance -- like wrapping the quality in a goody. The is the best of both worlds, really, and perhaps the key to raising the bar on the reading level to everyone's benefit.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-5266593789273632642013-05-30T08:35:53.157-06:002013-05-30T08:35:53.157-06:00When I was a child there was no YA category. I rea...When I was a child there was no YA category. I read adult books. We were taught "literature" (mostly by the great white males). I read Austen, Tolkein, D. H. Lawrence, and Moliere. On my own, I read Anne Rice, Stephen King,and Victoria Holt. That said, I think the current YA market encourages more teens to read because they are peer centered and like reading about characters in their age group or slightly older. My daughter and I read the Potter books together.<br /><br />I didn't dumb down the language (or the characters) in my YA series. I do believe, thanks to internet and social media usage, vocabularies are shrinking.Diana Hurwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18216220574149672733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-72367978614613601142013-05-30T08:19:46.158-06:002013-05-30T08:19:46.158-06:00Good post, Linda, and I agree with D.M. about wrap...Good post, Linda, and I agree with D.M. about wrapping the quality in the sweet temptation. I have not read all the Harry Potter books, but I did read the first one and enjoyed it. I think the writing was much better than some other popular books in the same genre.Maryannwriteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09479027709233807149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-38731749445454546982013-05-30T07:33:29.118-06:002013-05-30T07:33:29.118-06:00I can't remember if Vonnegut said it, and I...I can't remember if Vonnegut said it, and I'm paraphrasing, but it went something like this. "Even the best literature being written today--you have to wrap it in chocolate. If you wrap it in chocolate, they will read it and once they get past the truffle, they'll see the quality." He was acknowledging that we have to entice readers, and we must keep up with their tastes. I think a similar discussion goes with "wrap" music versus more traditional forms, and colorizing classic movies. I prefer the classic forms, but it's okay to do what we have to do to get kids reading, listening to and perhaps writing lyrics, appreciating the plots and artistry of classic films. I don't think a diet of junk anything is healthy, including a diet of dumbed down reading. On the other hand you can get sick if you only eat kale all day, every day. Balance is what we need, "everything in moderation," the old adage goes. We don't want them to get sick (bored to death) of the healthy stuff. That's the competitive advantage of the Potter books--she's wrapped the quality in chocolate. We would like readers of every age to be able to compare and to be open to and appreciative of the full palette. Sorry for all my mixed metaphors. It's early and I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet. D.M. SOLIShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13753807150268735755noreply@blogger.com