tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post2587454776478884442..comments2024-03-28T10:41:26.999-06:00Comments on Blood-Red Pencil: When Your Character Doesn’t Speak EnglishDanihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14471919576687777886noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-60534697205788812532012-08-28T20:43:18.360-06:002012-08-28T20:43:18.360-06:00Linda, I suspect since both are Romance languages,...Linda, I suspect since both are Romance languages, the word similarities simply overlapped. You could probably do fine in Italy with your Spanish and French.Danihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14471919576687777886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-29011826185268859262012-08-28T19:58:44.902-06:002012-08-28T19:58:44.902-06:00Helen, I thought I'd forgotten my one year of ...Helen, I thought I'd forgotten my one year of high school French until five years ago when I set out to learn Spanish. All of a sudden, my sentences would be fractured Spanish with a smattering of French words thrown in for good measure. Not sure where the French came from, but somewhat confused mind must have related the two languages. It took real effort to keep the French at bay until the Spanish became the more familiar language. <br /><br />Christa, you're so right about the challenges of finding a good balance without overdoing the foreign language usage. One of the things that I appreciate about other languages is the speaker's ability to use English words in creative ways that never would occur to us but that often paint the most fascinating word pictures in the minds of listeners. By extension, this would include our readers.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-5413745409950380472012-08-28T19:49:49.172-06:002012-08-28T19:49:49.172-06:00Morgan, in the past I would not have included fore...Morgan, in the past I would not have included foreign words in my stories. However, my interaction with the Hispanic community in the last few years has broadened my horizons in this area, and now it seems almost second nature to include characters whose native tongue isn't English.<br /><br />Louis, bravo for blazing new trails. I'm particularly intrigued by your use of Objibwe. I have long wanted to write a novel that included some of the Cherokee culture (and language - my children are part Cherokee), and one of the attorneys in my current book is half Irish and half Cherokee. In the sequel I may explore some of that history and culture within the context of the story.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-26301908168984875412012-08-28T19:40:21.179-06:002012-08-28T19:40:21.179-06:00Kathryn, I like your idea of making notes when lis...Kathryn, I like your idea of making notes when listening to ESL speakers. The way they phrase a sentence and use adjectives/adverbs, as well as their use of articles, can add great realism to our stories.<br /><br />Dani, thanks for noting that foreign words should be italicized and Google isn't the best translator. Writers need to be aware of both.<br /><br />Silfert, thank you for your kind words. Balance, indeed, is the key.<br /><br />Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-8479343869017894832012-08-28T14:55:01.885-06:002012-08-28T14:55:01.885-06:00This post is right up my alley! Thanks, Linda, for...This post is right up my alley! Thanks, Linda, for the example. I'm originally from the German part of Switzerland but live in California and do my creative writing in English. I write foremost for an English-speaking audience but my novels usually take place in several countries and I try to give the reader a flavor of the foreign language without overpowering him or her. Too many foreign expressions tend to interrupt the flow of the story and can even appear artificial. The right balance is not always easy to find. I was blamed once by a British reader of one of my novels, which takes place in part in Switzerland, for using American idiomatic expressions. Well, she may have had a point, but I couldn't very well have the people speak Swiss German. But it just shows that there isn't always an easy solution. <br />Good comments!<br />Christaauthor Christa Polkinhornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14609212815347152668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-5334953028956313532012-08-28T14:30:08.983-06:002012-08-28T14:30:08.983-06:00When using Ojibwe translations, I put the Ojibwe t...When using Ojibwe translations, I put the Ojibwe translations first, then identify the character speaking, and then the English form afterwards, (in the story, 'Wendigo,' available in 'The Paranoid Cat and other tales.' It's purely experimental, but it seemed to work okay. In a novel about a French detective, he speaks English so the readers can understand him, but occasionally blurts 'Nom de dieux,' (name of God,) or such things, which gives a certain flavour to the story. In some ways, it's common sense, and in some ways, especially 'Wendigo,' I'm trying new things and blazing a new trail.Louis Shalakohttp://shalakopublishing.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-80199250840621185932012-08-28T13:53:48.591-06:002012-08-28T13:53:48.591-06:00Since I've forgotten both Spanish (taken in hi...Since I've forgotten both Spanish (taken in high school) and French (college), I rarely attempt to write in either. I have occasionally used a word or two, but other than that, I write only in English. (Although some might say my use of Southern colloquialisms counts as a foreign language.)Helen Gingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09794759602654727110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-1394064275117034462012-08-28T12:53:34.593-06:002012-08-28T12:53:34.593-06:00I've never thought about using a character wit...I've never thought about using a character with a different language in my book. Yours looks like a good way to handle such a situation.<br />Morgan MandelMorgan Mandelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118929301591850918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-53295023664420342672012-08-28T11:24:03.765-06:002012-08-28T11:24:03.765-06:00I haven't had occasion to write any dialogue w...I haven't had occasion to write any dialogue with foreign words, but I've read plenty of them. It's hard to find just the right balance between beating your reader over the head with a language dictionary, and leaving them totally confused. The examples here strike just the right note. :) silferthttp://stitchtunes.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-21145281584202133632012-08-28T10:59:37.376-06:002012-08-28T10:59:37.376-06:00I would also add that Google Translate is not a gr...I would also add that Google Translate is not a great resource for writing foreign dialogue! In case you haven't figured that out. :DDanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14471919576687777886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-70513827206872401212012-08-28T10:49:57.954-06:002012-08-28T10:49:57.954-06:00Really good example of how to flawlessly weave in ...Really good example of how to flawlessly weave in the foreign dialogue. Lately, I've been reading stories that don't italicize the foreign words, and that gets very confusing. I've even wondered whether the foreign language in YA and Fantasy genres shouldn't be in italics. LOL. Not Googling that, Christopher! Danihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14471919576687777886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-26554663419170201282012-08-28T09:53:56.701-06:002012-08-28T09:53:56.701-06:00Linda, this is a really useful post (augmented nic...Linda, this is a really useful post (augmented nicely by Larry!). It's a great idea for writers to jot notes after speaking to ESL speakers. You never know when it might come in handy.Kathryn Crafthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371458857187160425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-11842168215209568842012-08-28T09:05:58.883-06:002012-08-28T09:05:58.883-06:00Christopher, blue pencils are nice.
Maryann, it&#...Christopher, blue pencils are nice.<br /><br />Maryann, it's interesting how people from different parts of the world use Enlish differently. Mexicans, for example, use articles (the, in paticular) where we don't. My association with Spanish speakers is often Mexican, but I also have friends who are from Cuba, Puerto Rico, Uruguay, etc., and they all speak English uniquely. For a lady who has never been a world traveler, this venture into other cultures and languages is extraordinary.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-7241168433006636872012-08-28T08:49:30.972-06:002012-08-28T08:49:30.972-06:00Ah, Larry, a kindred spirit who incoporates foreig...Ah, Larry, a kindred spirit who incoporates foreign language for flavor and realism. I enjoyed your examples. They work beautifully -- so much so that now I'd like to read the books. Talk about great marketing! :-) Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-29561504426400318052012-08-28T08:42:52.902-06:002012-08-28T08:42:52.902-06:00Heidi, it was a challenge at first to find a way t...Heidi, it was a challenge at first to find a way to keep the story flowing without losing readers who didn't want to try to figure out the foreign words. So glad you can understand -- most of the Spanish-speaking scenes are similar to those in my article. One scene, however, is mostly internal dialogue and initially involves only the Spanish-speaking woman. That had to be in English. Her few spoken words, however, are in Spanish.Linda Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06686488133905538811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-16274657808789817582012-08-28T07:19:04.313-06:002012-08-28T07:19:04.313-06:00Very helpful post, Linda, and I really like the wa...Very helpful post, Linda, and I really like the way you blended the Spanish in to make it understandable in context.<br /><br />Reading this reminded me of the first time I tried to write dialogue by a Spanish man. He did speak English with just a few Spanish words thrown in. However, I was trying to get the rhythm of how Hispanics speak right. I gave the ms to a friend who is Spanish and asked for her feedback. She told me he sounded like a Chinese speaking Pigeon English. LOL My friend helped me get it right. Which is always the bottom line - get it right.Maryannwriteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09479027709233807149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-71821055916021293362012-08-28T06:38:02.379-06:002012-08-28T06:38:02.379-06:00As a guy who struggles with his native tongue, I f...As a guy who struggles with his native tongue, I find it prudent to avoid any reference to foreign languages ... unless it is something like: el lapiz es azul.Christopher Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03667548312923348614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-44819277435680830412012-08-28T05:35:40.201-06:002012-08-28T05:35:40.201-06:00This is a great post, Linda, on a topic near and d...This is a great post, Linda, on a topic near and dear to me as a writer. The characters in my international thrillers have spoken Hebrew, German, Dutch, and Portuguese, among other languages. Although your scene represents a rather specialized context, you demonstrate one broadly useful writing technique. The "translation echo," in which a phrase in another language is immediately echoed by the speaker in English, is a flexible one that readers seem to accept--at least for short phrases--even though real people do not speak that way. Other variants include having the other speaker do the translating for the reader or even to give the translation first.<br /><br />"<i>Os chaves, Senhor</i>," he said.<br />"Yes, the keys. Thank you. <i>Obrigado</i>," I replied.<br /><br />On occasion, I trust to broad familiarity and context to cue the reader. As a reader, I enjoy these little lessons in language, but I have also been criticized for it.<br /><br />"Here is the document you have been looking for," I said.<br />He smiled in gratitude. "<i>Toda. Todah raba,</i>" he said in his accented Hebrew.<br />"You don't have to thank me. It was always yours."<br /><br />Like you, I always have native speakers of the language proof my constructions, even in a language that I know quite well. Still, part of verisimilitude is in the slips and misconstructions. If my character is not fluent in German, he will not necessarily get every word perfect, and I sometimes make a character struggle with the language or be corrected by someone else, which also adds to believability.Larry Constantine (Lior Samson)http://amazon.com/author/liorsamson/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5704943052235281766.post-25249816457688822932012-08-28T00:33:45.793-06:002012-08-28T00:33:45.793-06:00I'm not a Spanish-speaker, but I could underst...I'm not a Spanish-speaker, but I could understand what was going on because of the context. Great examples of how to use foreign language.Heidiwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593338979995203659noreply@blogger.com